1 SENATE/HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
2 THE TWENTY-FIRST LEGISLATURE
3 INTERIM OF 2001
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6 JOINT SENATE-HOUSE INVESTIGATIVE COMMITTEE
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8 _____________________________________________________
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11 HEARING held at Conference Room 325, State
12 Capitol, 415 South Beretania Street, Honolulu, Hawaii,
13 commencing at 12:40 p.m., on June 19, 2001.
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15
16 BEFORE: SHIRLEY L. KEYS, RPR, CM, CSR 383
17 Notary Public, State of Hawaii
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1 APPEARANCES:
2
3 SEN. COLLEEN HANABUSA, Co-Chair
4 REP. SCOTT K. SAIKI, Co-Chair
5 SEN. SAM SLOM
6 SEN. DAVID M. MATSUURA
7 SEN. JAN YAGI BUEN
8 SEN. NORMAN SAKAMOTO
9 SEN. RUSSELL KOKUBUN
10 REP. KEN ITO
11 REP. BERTHA C. KAWAKAMAI
12 REP. BERTHA F.K. LEONG
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1 (Discussion off the record.)
2 MS. HANABUSA: Let us call the meeting
3 to order. The Joint Senate/House Investigative Committee
4 to investigate the State's efforts to comply with the
5 Felix Consent Decree will come to order. Will Co-Chair
6 Saiki please call the roll?
7 MR. SAIKI: Co-Chair Hanabusa?
8 MS. HANABUSA: Here.
9 MR. SAIKI: Co-Chair Saiki, present.
10 Vice Chair Kokubun?
11 MR. KOKUBUN: Present.
12 MR. SAIKI: Vice Chair Blake Oshiro,
13 excused. Senator Buen?
14 MS. BUEN: Here.
15 MR. SAIKI: Representative Ito?
16 MR. ITO: Present.
17 MR. SAIKI: Representative Kawakami?
18 MS. KAWAKAMI: Present.
19 MR. SAIKI: Representative Leong?
20 MS. LEONG: Present.
21 MR. SAIKI: Senator Matsuura?
22 MR. MATSURRA: Here.
23 MR. SAIKI: Representative Pendleton,
24 excused. Senator Sakamoto?
25 MR. SAKAMOTO: Here.
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1 MR. SAIKI: Senator Slom?
2 MR. SLOM: Here.
3 MR. SAIKI: We have ten members
4 present, two excused.
5 MS. HANABUSA: And that qualifies as a
6 quorum under HRS Section -- Chapter 21. Members, for
7 your information, this proceeding is being recorded by
8 our court reporter. She is seated, I guess directly in
9 front of Representative Ito. She is Shirley L. Keys, and
10 she is with the Ralph Rosenberg Reporting Company.
11 Now we're going to proceed, members, to
12 the authorization to have this hearing televised, filmed
13 or broadcast. The law governing the conduct of the
14 legislative investigative committee requires approval by
15 a majority vote of all the committee members before a
16 hearing may be televised, filmed or broadcast.
17 Accordingly, if there are no objections, the co-chairs
18 recommend that the committee authorize this hearing to be
19 televised, filmed or broadcast. Do we have any
20 objections?
21 MR. SAKAMOTO: Just a question.
22 MS. HANABUSA: Yes.
23 MR. SAKAMOTO: Does that mean this
24 motion is for all of the hearings or this specific date,
25 this specific hearing?
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1 MS. HANABUSA: Good question. The way,
2 when we finally adopt the rules, you will find that this
3 motion will be for all hearings, and we will require us
4 to make an affirmative motion not to have this happen.
5 So it will be for all hearings henceforth unless there is
6 a motion to do otherwise. Any other questions? Okay.
7 There being no objection, members of the media, you may
8 turn on your equipment now. We will recess just
9 temporarily for about -- oh, maybe a minute to let olelo
10 do their connections.
11 (Recess.)
12 MS. HANABUSA: Members, we are back in
13 hearing. I believe that right now we are now being
14 televised by olelo, and just for those who may be turning
15 in or tuning into this program, we apologize, but due to
16 a provision of the Hawaii Revised Statute, the committee
17 had to first authorize the broadcast, and that is why
18 olelo could not be with us from the inception. All you
19 missed was the introduction, the roll call, and basically
20 the motion authorizing the fact that this would be
21 broadcast at this point in time.
22 Right now the co-chairs would like to
23 give a brief opening statement as to why we're proceeding
24 along this way, and I will turn this first over to my
25 co-chair, Representative Saiki.
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1 MR. SAIKI: Thank you, Co-Chair
2 Hanabusa. At the outset, we would like to emphasize that
3 the legislature fully supports special education programs
4 because we know that these services give our students the
5 opportunity to reach their full potential. This
6 investigative committee is evidence of our support for
7 special education.
8 The legislature formed this committee
9 pursuant to Senate Concurrent Resolution 65 that was
10 adopted through the past legislative session. The
11 purpose of this committee is to examine the State
12 administration's management and implementation of the
13 Felix versus Cayetano special education consent decree.
14 This unusual process of establishing a joint Senate-House
15 committee is a direct result of the Department of
16 Education and Department of Health's inability to answer
17 our concerns about how we are handling this Federal
18 mandate.
19 The Felix Consent Decree is the outcome
20 of a lawsuit filed against the State of Hawaii in Federal
21 District Court in 1993 for the State's apparent violation
22 of the Individuals with Disabilities Education Act, or
23 IDEA. This Federal law requires educational
24 jurisdictions to provide educational, mental health and
25 related services to disabled children. The Department of
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1 Education and the Health Department have the primary
2 responsibility for implementing the requirements of IDEA
3 and the consent decree.
4 In May 2000, despite the fact that the
5 legislature had appropriated over one billion dollars
6 since 1994 to allow the administration to comply with the
7 consent decree, the Federal District Court found the
8 State to be in contempt because it had not complied. At
9 this juncture, questions must be asked why are we not in
10 compliance after we have spent over one billion dollars.
11 We owe it to our taxpayers and special education students
12 to find the answer to this question.
13 To try and answer this question, State
14 auditor Mary Higa performed two separate audits in 1998
15 and 2001. The audits noted the problems encountered by
16 the administration in implementing the IDEA. The latest
17 auditor's report raised grave concerns as to whether the
18 services provided to special education children are
19 appropriate and effective. The auditor found that the
20 administration lacks adequate financial management
21 control, the class of children covered by the consent
22 decree is too broad, and conflicts of interest may
23 inflate the cost and scope of services provided to
24 students.
25 The Felix Consent Decree is now the
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1 State's number one public policy issue, and we'd like to
2 explain why. First, enormous State spending for special
3 education lessens funding for other valuable State
4 services. Expenditures for Felix related services have
5 dramatically increased from 181 million dollars in 1995
6 to over 302 million dollars in 2000. It appears this
7 trend will continue in 2001. With this rate of growth,
8 this one program may drain the State's financial
9 resources away from regular education and university
10 programs. We need to make sure that this level of
11 funding is appropriate.
12 Second, the legislature has not
13 received a reasonable explanation for the tremendous
14 growth in the special education student population. The
15 number of Felix students has increased over the past five
16 years from 1,800 to 12,000 students, and up to an
17 additional 10,000 special education students who are
18 receiving other Felix related services. However, the
19 auditor found that the consent decree does not clearly
20 define which students are eligible for special education
21 services. We need to determine if this is true.
22 Third, we don't know if services are
23 effective. The auditor found no evidence that students
24 have actually benefitted from special education services.
25 We need to find out why.
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1 Fourth, the legislature has received
2 complaints of abuse and waste. Principals, teachers,
3 parents and others in Hawaii's public school system have
4 complained that the mounting special education funds are
5 not well spent. They're concerned that the system may be
6 benefiting private providers who receive contracts as
7 opposed to students. It is our responsibility to listen
8 to these educators and parents and to address their
9 concerns.
10 This committee is an extension of the
11 legislature's constitutional duty to insure that
12 taxpayers' funds are used effectively and properly. The
13 legislature will not deny resources to special education
14 students if those resources are used to assist them in
15 achieving their full potential, but the legislature must
16 be assured that the administration is spending these
17 funds appropriately and that taxpayers' dollars are not
18 being abused or wasted. We believe that the entire
19 public will benefit from such scrutiny.
20 MS. HANABUSA: Thank you,
21 Representative Saiki. Representative Saiki has set forth
22 the basis of why we, the legislature, have determined
23 that it is necessary to go into the investigative
24 committee mode. I'd like to now inform the public as to
25 what to expect in this and the format that we probably
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1 will be following.
2 I can't emphasize enough that for many
3 years now, the State auditor on the legislature's behalf
4 has been monitoring the expenditure of State funds which
5 we have appropriated to meet the mandates of the Felix
6 Consent Decree. The auditor's findings are troubling,
7 and they form the basis for the subject matter and scope
8 of this joint committee.
9 We've arrived at a point where
10 legislature's questions can only be answered in an
11 investigative setting. Information compiled by the
12 auditor will guide this investigation and help determine
13 who should be compelled to come before this joint
14 committee and testify and what documents will be
15 compelled to be produced.
16 This joint committee was established
17 pursuant to Chapter 21 of the Hawaii Revised Statutes.
18 This provision of the law authorizes the legislature to
19 compel the production of records and the attendance of
20 witnesses. More importantly, the testimony of the
21 witnesses will be taken under oath. All proceedings of
22 the joint committee will be strictly conducted in
23 accordance with Chapter 21, the specifications of the
24 Senate Concurrent Resolution number 65, S.D. 1, H.D. 1,
25 which both houses passed this last legislative session,
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1 and the committee ruled that this joint committee will be
2 adopting today.
3 However, to insure that the
4 constitutional rights of those called to produce records
5 or testify are protected, these proceedings will be
6 formal in nature. Subpoenas will be served and witnesses
7 will be given the statutory ten days notice to appear.
8 Now, unlike other hearings of the
9 legislature, only those subpoenaed by the committee will
10 testify. Members of the public will not be permitted to
11 testify as you normally see in our legislative hearing.
12 The questioning will be -- of the witnesses will be sworn
13 under oath to tell the truth, witnesses will be permitted
14 to bring an attorney if they so desire, and our court
15 reporter will record these proceedings.
16 The clerk of the House of
17 Representatives will serve as the official repository of
18 the committee records. Representative Saiki and myself
19 as co-chairs will preside over the hearing. The
20 proceedings will be open to the public unless it is
21 necessary to close the hearings to protect the privacy
22 rights of individuals and to meet matters requiring
23 confidentiality. However, when we take such an action,
24 that will also be in compliance with the provisions of
25 Chapter 21 of the Hawaii Revised Statutes.
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1 Today the joint committee will adopt
2 rules of procedure, authorize the issuance of subpoenas,
3 name the first set of witnesses who will appearing before
4 the committee at its next hearing and discuss the joint
5 committee's schedule of meetings and hearings. That is
6 what our agenda is for today. That is what will be acted
7 upon.
8 Before I go any further, we would like
9 to recognize that Representative Blake Oshiro is the vice
10 chair for the House, and Senator Russell Kokubun is the
11 vice chair on the Senate side.
12 MR. SAIKI: Thank you, members. We'd
13 like to now take up the matter of adopting our
14 investigative committee rules. Section 21-4, Hawaii
15 Revised Statutes requires the adoption of rules governing
16 the committee procedures, and I believe that we have
17 distributed copies of the rules to all of you. I hope
18 you've had an opportunity to review them. Co-chairs
19 would like to recommend that we adopt these rules.
20 Is there any discussion on the rules?
21 Okay. Members, is there any discussion on the rules? If
22 not, the matter before the committee is the
23 recommendation of the co-chairs that the proposed rules
24 be adopted to govern the proceedings of the committee and
25 to ask Co-Chair Hanabusa to call the roll.
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1 MS. HANABUSA: Members, we are voting
2 on the adoption of the committee rules. Co-Chair
3 Hanabusa is aye. Co-Chair Saiki?
4 MR. SAIKI: Yes.
5 MS. HANABUSA: Vice Chair Kokubun?
6 MR. KOKUBUN: Aye.
7 MS. HANABUSA: Vice Chair Oshiro is
8 excused. Senator Buen?
9 MS. BUEN: Aye.
10 MS. HANABUSA: Representative Ito?
11 MR. ITO: Aye.
12 MS. HANABUSA: Representative Kawakami?
13 MS. KAWAKAMI: Aye.
14 MS. HANABUSA: Representative Leong?
15 MS. LEONG: Aye.
16 MS. HANABUSA: Senator Matsuura?
17 MR. MATSUURA: Aye.
18 MS. HANABUSA: Representative Pendleton
19 is excused. Senator Sakamoto?
20 MR. SAKAMOTO: Aye.
21 MS. HANABUSA: Senator Slom?
22 MR. SLOM: Aye.
23 MS. HANABUSA: The rules are adopted.
24 MR. SAIKI: Thank you very much,
25 members. We'd also like to announce that the rules will
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1 be made available on our legislative web site, hopefully
2 in a few days.
3 MS. HANABUSA: Members, the committee
4 is authorized to issue subpoenas to secure the attendance
5 of witnesses and the production of documents pursuant to
6 Senate Concurrent Resolution 65, S.D. 1, H.D. 1 and
7 Section 21-8 of the Hawaii Revised Statutes. Section
8 21-8B of the Hawaii Revised Statute does require as well
9 that the majority of the votes of the members of the
10 committee are necessary before we issue a subpoena in
11 this matter.
12 The co-chairs recommend that the
13 committee authorize the issuance of subpoenas to Ira
14 Groves and Juanita Iwamoto, commanding them to appear
15 before the committee and to produce documents in their
16 possession or control relevant to the efforts to comply
17 with the Felix Consent Decree. We are going to ask that
18 their presence as well as the documents be returned to
19 this committee on July 13 at nine o'clock in the morning.
20 Do we have any discussion? I'm sorry,
21 Ivor Groves, I-V-O-R. Do we have any discussion,
22 members? If not, Co-Chair Saiki -- let us be clear as to
23 the motion that we have before us, that the matter before
24 the committee is the recommendation of the co-chairs that
25 the committee issues subpoenas to Mr. Ivor Groves and
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1 Miss Juanita Iwamoto, commanding them to appear before
2 this committee and produce documents in their possession
3 or control relevant to the efforts to comply with the
4 Felix Consent Decree on July 13, 2001, in this room at
5 nine o'clock a.m. Co-Chair Saiki, will you please call
6 the roll?
7 MR. SAIKI: Co-Chair Hanabusa?
8 MS. HANABUSA: Aye.
9 MR. SAIKI: Co-Chair Saiki votes yes.
10 Vice Chair Kokubun?
11 MR. KOKUBUN: Aye.
12 MR. SAIKI: Vice Chair Oshiro is
13 excused. Senator Buen?
14 MS. BUEN: Aye.
15 MR. SAIKI: Representative Ito?
16 MR. ITO: Aye.
17 MR. SAIKI: Representative Kawakami?
18 MS. KAWAKAMI: Aye.
19 MR. SAIKI: Representative Leong?
20 MS. LEONG: Aye.
21 MR. SAIKI: Senator Matsuura?
22 MR. MATSUURA: Aye.
23 MR. SAIKI: Representative Pendleton is
24 excused. Senator Sakamoto?
25 MR. SAKAMOTO: Aye.
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1 MR. SAIKI: Senator Slom?
2 MR. SLOM: Aye.
3 MR. SAIKI: The measure is passed, ten
4 ayes, two excused.
5 MS. HANABUSA: What we have just gone
6 through in terms of the issuance of subpoenas for
7 Mr. Ivor Groves and Miss Juanita Iwamoto brings up
8 further procedural issues that we must deal with as a
9 committee, and that is how to handle future issuance of
10 subpoenas of individuals to appear as well as the
11 documents requested. In that light, we would like to ask
12 the committee authorize the following procedure.
13 This procedure set forth in Committee
14 Rule number 2.2, Committee Rule 2.2D allows the committee
15 to delegate to the chairs the authority to specify the
16 time and place the person subpoenaed is to attend, and to
17 designate the books, papers and documents required to be
18 produced by the committee.
19 Accordingly, the co-chairs further
20 recommend that the co-chairs be given the responsibility
21 to describe in the subpoena the documents being requested
22 by this committee and to select the appropriate date and
23 time for compliance by the witnesses, to arrange for
24 service of the subpoena of the witnesses and to do all
25 things necessary and appropriate in connection with the
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1 preparation, signing and the service of the subpoenas.
2 Does anyone have any questions or any discussion on that
3 point?
4 What we'd like to clarify is that in
5 the rules and in the statute, be aware of the fact that
6 before anyone can be subpoenaed to appear before this
7 committee, they must be given ten days notice. And
8 before this committee itself can be -- just to call
9 ourselves as a body, we must be provided seven days
10 notice. So what this does is it permits us if we were in
11 the next meeting to vote on another battery of people to
12 appear before us, that it gives Co-Chair Saiki and myself
13 the flexibility of saying that it may be the following
14 day and the third day after that versus a specific day,
15 all being well aware of the fact that we must give the
16 ten day notice.
17 MR. SAKAMOTO: Yes. So if you granted
18 that authority, then you'll be informing the committee of
19 which subpoenas or which specific records you will be
20 requesting, and that will give you the authority to work
21 with Mr. Groves in determining what specific documents
22 from, I assume a voluminous amount of material that you
23 would request?
24 MS. HANABUSA: Right. We would like to
25 be in the position where we can of course get people's
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1 cooperation first. The problem is if we can't get that,
2 and the need for the subpoena is to be able to run these
3 investigative committees on an orderly and timely matter,
4 so we must be able to predict when people will be
5 appearing.
6 So what we anticipate doing is that
7 before -- like we have two names that we have given you
8 the dates and the times. In the future we may ask you to
9 pass on maybe four or five names and say that they will
10 be scheduled for the next two or three hearing dates, but
11 you will give us the flexibility of arranging who will
12 appear on which day at which time. That's what we're
13 asking for here. Any other questions? No?
14 So the matter that we have before us is
15 the recommendation of co-chairs that we be given the
16 responsibility to describe what's being done, the
17 documents that were being requested, to select
18 appropriate dates and times of compliance by witnesses,
19 to sign the subpoenas, which is part of our concurrent
20 resolution anyway and part of the statute, to arrange for
21 service of subpoenas of the witness and to do things
22 necessary and appropriate in connection with the
23 preparation, signing and service of the subpoena, so
24 that's what we're voting on. Co-Chair Saiki?
25 MR. SAIKI: Co-Chair Hanabusa?
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1 MS. HANABUSA: Aye.
2 MR. SAIKI: Co-Chair Saiki votes aye.
3 Vice Chair Kokubun?
4 MR. KOKUBUN: Aye.
5 MR. SAIKI: Vice Chair Oshiro is
6 excused. Senator Buen?
7 MS. BUEN: Aye.
8 MR. SAIKI: Representative Ito?
9 MR. ITO: Aye.
10 MR. SAIKI: Representative Kawakami?
11 MS. KAWAKAMI: Aye.
12 MR. SAIKI: Representative Leong?
13 MS. LEONG: Aye.
14 MR. SAIKI: Senator Matsuura?
15 MR. MATSUURA: Aye.
16 MR. SAIKI: Representative Pendleton is
17 excused. Senator Sakamoto?
18 MR. SAKAMOTO: Aye.
19 MR. SAIKI: Senator Slom?
20 MR. SLOM: Aye.
21 MR. SAIKI: Motion passes, ten ayes,
22 two excused. Members, at this time we'd just like to
23 announce that our next investigative committee hearing
24 will take place on Friday, July 13, at nine a.m, in this
25 room, conference room 325.
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1 Okay, members, is there any other
2 further business? If not, we'd like to adjourn. Thank
3 you.
4 (Hearing concluded at 1:06 p.m.)
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1 C E R T I F I C A T E
2 STATE OF HAWAII )
3 ) SS.
4 CITY AND COUNTY OF HONOLULU )
5 I, SHIRLEY L. KEYS, Notary Public, State of
6 Hawaii, do hereby certify:
7 That the hearing was taken down by me in
8 machine shorthand and was thereafter reduced to
9 typewriting under my supervision; that the foregoing
10 represents to the best of my ability, a true and correct
11 transcript of the proceedings had in the foregoing
12 matter.
13 I further certify that I am not an attorney
14 for any of the parties hereto, nor in any way concerned
15 with the cause.
16 DATED this ______ day of _____________, 2001,
17 in Honolulu, Hawaii.
18 ______________________________
SHIRLEY L. KEYS, CSR 383
19 Notary Public, State of Hawaii
My Commission Exp. May 19, 2003
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